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MELKOR
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject: Radio Tuning Suggestion |
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Sometimes tuning your FS radio during busy periods (during approach, for example) takes up precious time.
Would be nice to able to tune FS COM1 or COM2 directly from the ATC list (suggest: right click an ATC name and select "Tune COM1" or "Tune COM2").
Also, a double-click shortcut for above would be useful (suggest: double left-click tunes to COM1, double right-click tunes to COM2).
- Bill |
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TFaudree
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Surprise surprise, tuning your radio in the real world takes precious time also. True, its a little bit easier because you can spin the knobs quickly with your fingers, but it does take 5 seconds or so.
I disagree with your idea about double clicking or right clicking. That makes the way you tune your radio unrealistic. One of the things that really bothers me with things in their current state is that pilots simply don't listen to the frequency that you tell them to contact. I might as well be speaking dolphin language to some of them. Its a 5 digit number...not that difficult to remember. |
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joel
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Posts: 1895
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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And believe me, this was a point of much heated discussion in the run-up to SB3's release. Not having click-to-tune functionality is the right way to go for two reasons. One, it's more realistic. Two, it forces the pilot to use a tuning methodology which will be compatible with the new improved voice architecture planned for future releases.
Joel |
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MELKOR
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| TFaudree wrote: | Surprise surprise, tuning your radio in the real world takes precious time also. True, its a little bit easier because you can spin the knobs quickly with your fingers, but it does take 5 seconds or so.
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And that is, I suppose, my point: it takes me upwards of 30 seconds to change the frequency (pan through VC to radio stack, fiddle with the digits, and switch the active). Which is NOT realistic! Am I just unusually slow?
Most of the time, I pre-program the frequencies that I'm going to need. However, there are cases in which there is so much ATC (take the weekly TGI events on VATSIM, for example) that it's just a crap shoot as to which ATC I'm going to be passed off to.
But, anyway, down to my philosophical point: so what if the feature is there? If YOU find it unrealistic, then DONT USE IT.
| TFaudree wrote: | | I disagree with your idea about double clicking or right clicking. That makes the way you tune your radio unrealistic. One of the things that really bothers me with things in their current state is that pilots simply don't listen to the frequency that you tell them to contact. I might as well be speaking dolphin language to some of them. Its a 5 digit number...not that difficult to remember. |
I have NO idea where that is coming from... my point is the TIME required to tune, not my questionable short-term recall!! 
Thanks,
- Bill |
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MELKOR
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| joel wrote: | And believe me, this was a point of much heated discussion in the run-up to SB3's release. Not having click-to-tune functionality is the right way to go for two reasons. One, it's more realistic. Two, it forces the pilot to use a tuning methodology which will be compatible with the new improved voice architecture planned for future releases.
Joel |
Well, is there really a need to enforce this restriction? From MY point of view, I find the CURRENT state of affairs to be unrealistic (see my above reply).
Quesiton: What is so wrong with putting the short-cut features in the software? For those who want "realism" 100% of the time: DONT USE THE SHORTCUTS!
- Bill |
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Craig Moulton
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 567
Location: Lompoc, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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If you are so keen on shortcuts, try the dot command for tuning the radio.
.com1 XXX.XX<enter> Sets the frequency of XXX.XX in the com1 radio
.com2 XXX.XX<enter> Sets the frequency of XXX.XXi in the com2 radio
.com 1<enter> Makes com1 the active frequency
.com 2<enter> Makes com2 the active frequency
.com both<enter> Toggle to monitor both frequencies on/off |
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MELKOR
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm aware of those Craig. Thanks for the tip, though.
But, based on Joel's response, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get any traction on this suggestion, anyway.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
- Bill |
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jgolin
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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One useful trick I use is to listen for the guys 'in front' or 'around' me; if I hear the controller give them a frequency, I either write it down or pretune my comm radio immediately.
I can then just click the one button to change to that frequency when required. If it is a different frequency it will take a few seconds to retune.
Works 80-90% of the time! |
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Martin Georg/EDDF
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 315
Location: Frankfurt am Main/Germany
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And that is, I suppose, my point: it takes me upwards of 30 seconds to change the frequency (pan through VC to radio stack, fiddle with the digits, and switch the active). Which is NOT realistic! Am I just unusually slow? |
Yep,
unusually slow, and not proactive to a certain extend. Having to switch the frequency is nothing that comes by surprise. If youīre well prepared you should even know the frequency in advance (frequencies are printed on charts, you may listen to where preceeding traffic has to switch to etc.). This means you can and should dial in your next frequency into the standby part of the radio in advance. After that itīs only a click on the transfer button (perhaps one more click before for the radio stack clickspot).
Thereīs also a second issue to consider: At the moment, frequencies and station IDīs (station callsigns like EDFF_CTR or BOS_CTR) are tied together in a way that one station may have one active frequency only. This is something which is likely to change in future. The frequency will be the core issue, and the significance of the controllers callsign will be greatly reduce. This means you are loosing the ability to identify a station precisely by itīs callsign only. |
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PegAir
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Its sad that Joel is letting ATC dictate the PILOT interface. I think the 49k pilots should be allowed to ask for what they want THEIR inteface to look like.
So here is the question, would someone explain to me why the new archictecture for voice radio will be incompatible with click to tune? I hear that alot but no one explains why. |
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Craig Moulton
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 567
Location: Lompoc, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I believe the next release of ASRC (and perhaps some of the other new ATC clients) will allow a single controller to have multiple active frequencies. A simple point and click would therefor cause problems.
It is probably not something that couldn't be worked out if desired. |
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Luke
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 357
Location: Roswell, GA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Craig Moulton wrote: | | It is probably not something that couldn't be worked out if desired. |
I think that's the real problem - there's no shortage of desire and ability to create an effective software solution to the problem that would make tuning faster AND more accurate.
There's merely a lack of will among a subset of VATSIM members and staff.
Luke |
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PegAir
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Craig Moulton wrote: | I believe the next release of ASRC (and perhaps some of the other new ATC clients) will allow a single controller to have multiple active frequencies. A simple point and click would therefor cause problems.
It is probably not something that couldn't be worked out if desired. |
Thank you very much for that answer.
I think I've heard the debates on the controller side about that one .. not sure how all that's gonna work in practice as pilots will be talking all over each other and the controller will soon look like he's stuck his finger in a light socket trying to keep it all straight.
[- those are echo's of what I remember from the controller debate -]
Oh .. um .. my idea .. 
Right click on name, list of frequencies pop up, select one. Your gonna need something like that anyway so you know what to tune to when you see him online.
FTW
- Center xxx.x
- DFW APP xxx.x
- DAL APP xxx.x
- DFW TWR xxx.x
- DAL TWR xxx.x
- TKI TWR xxx.x
- RBD TWR xxx.x
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jgolin
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| PegAir wrote: | Its sad that Joel is letting ATC dictate the PILOT interface. I think the 49k pilots should be allowed to ask for what they want THEIR inteface to look like.
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As has been said, there was much discussion about this during the development on these forums from all sorts of people. |
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TFaudree
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MELKOR wrote: | | TFaudree wrote: | | I disagree with your idea about double clicking or right clicking. That makes the way you tune your radio unrealistic. One of the things that really bothers me with things in their current state is that pilots simply don't listen to the frequency that you tell them to contact. I might as well be speaking dolphin language to some of them. Its a 5 digit number...not that difficult to remember. |
I have NO idea where that is coming from... my point is the TIME required to tune, not my questionable short-term recall!!
Thanks,
- Bill |
That comment came from me thinking you wanted a simplistic way of getting around having to remember the frequency. I have run across many pilots that insist on having SB tune the radios in the way you mentioned because of the fact that they are too inattentive to listen to the new frequency they are being assigned. This is normally accompanied by lack of ability to maintain speeds, altitudes, or fly routes on which they were cleared.
I apologize if there appeared to be any doubt on my part of your ability to recall numbers in the short-term. No offense was meant and I hope none taken. |
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